Is the Value of an Ivy League Education Overrated?
What's the value of an Ivy League college education (or really, an education at any "elite" private university)? There's certainly a mystique in popular culture about the Ivy League, particularly among non-Ivy Leaguers, that goes something like this: Students at Ivy League schools are a bunch of eggheads different from you and me. With their smarts and prestigious gold-minted degrees, they are set for life as they ascend the upper echelons of power, business and wealth. Like all myths and stereotypes, there are some elements of truth shaded in this notion, but what is the true picture? Is an Ivy League college education superior to an education at State U or some other college? Looking at several objective factors as well as some anecdotal evidence below (which admittedly is not scientific), the answer to this question is a resounding MAYBE...
1. Exclusivity
There is no doubt that Ivy League schools are some of the most selective universities in the world. The acceptance rate at Harvard is around 10%. Contrast that with Texas Tech University and its almost 70% acceptance rate. So, we know that it's hard to get your foot in the door at the Ivy League schools, but what does that mean? I think all we can conclude from the low acceptance rates is that lots of high school seniors apply to Ivy League school because Ivy League schools are desirable.
2. High Caliber Students
Students who are accepted for admittance to Ivy League schools tend to be high achievers, at least from traditional metrics such as grade point averages and SAT scores. In addition, there is ever increasing pressure to demonstrate superlatives above and beyond academics, whether in the field of athletics, volunteer work or something else. So, when you put all these super achievers together, you get a great synergy (or at least in theory). From an anecdotal standpoint, this argument seems to have a lot of traction among the Ivy Leaguers I know. Smart kids, particularly smart kids who are motivated and driven, will push other smart kids to perform their best, share ideas and produce innovation. However, a fair number of the Ivy Leaguers also point out that the undergraduate experience at an Ivy League school is not all about intense intellectual debate and curiosity, and you may be surprised by what goes on within the student body - everything from stereotypical StateU-type binge drinking and partying to rampant cheating and plagiarism to a more than uncommon intellectual non-curiosity. So, while certain synergies come from putting a bunch of smart people together, does a driven high achiever excel because of the environment or is that same person going to excel no matter where he or she goes to school?
3. Cost
One negative aspect to Ivy League schools certainly has to be the price tag. The tuition, room and board at Dartmouth, for example, is currently $43,341 per year. Contrasting with Texas Tech again, the tuition, room and board for Texas residents at Texas Tech is an estimated $17,554. Assuming that the respective tuition, room and board figures remain the same over four years (highly improbable given the tuition increases at both public and private universities), we're talking about a $100,000 difference over four years between Dartmouth and Texas Tech. If a Dartmouth student finances his/her education solely through student loans, that's over $170,000 in debt by graduation. Now, imagine that the Dartmouth grad goes to a private graduate school and finances that education through debt. The $170k from college is some serious money, but now we're talking about some serious serious money! Don't think it ever happens? Check out the plight of two young married doctors with over a HALF MILLION dollars in student debt.
4. Quality of Faculty
So, maybe the Ivy League advantage comes from the quality of the faculty and classes. After all, some of that genius must rub off on the students, right? Again, my anecdotal evidence indicates no clear conclusion. The vast majority of Ivy Leaguers that the Honchos have spoken to felt that quite a few of their professors were uninterested in the teaching aspect of their jobs. What, you say - teachers who don't want to teach? Similar to any other major research university, Ivy League schools are in competition for grants and funding, and that comes from research and publishing. As such, professors are rewarded for their research and publishing efforts and not so much for teaching. Sure, the Ivy Leaguers found some gems here and there, and in some cases, had inspirational relationships with professors who became their mentors, but as a whole, many professors seemed to be distant from teaching (and rationally so, considering the reward scheme). One Ivy League alum who took classes with two different Nobel prize winners found the genius of the laureautes less than inspiring. The first Nobel laureaute missed more than half his classes while traveling back and forth between Europe to build a villa and put a graduate student in charge of teaching the course. The other Nobel laureaute refused to engage any points of view that differed from his own.
5. Connections
So, that brings us to connections, and this is where I think the Ivy League / elite private college advantage comes in. For certain industries and professions, investment banking and management consulting come to mind, it certainly appears that having the Ivy League degree is advantageous for getting one's foot in the door. Certain traditionally clubby professions such as finance are disproportionately populated by Ivy League alums. When these companies look to recruit each year, Ivy League schools are their major sources for talent. Similarly, Ivy League undergrads tend to serve as feeders to Ivy League law schools and business schools, and many white-shoe companies tend to hire a disproportionate number of recruits from the Ivy League professional schools.
But, this advantage does not seem to cross all industries or professions, including medicine, sales, entertainment, engineering, computers, accounting, sciences, etc. After all, is organic chemistry really that different at Harvard versus UCLA? Are Harvard students learning about special atoms that their counterparts in Westwood aren't? I don't think so, but then again, I never took organic chemistry.
6. Conclusion
It's hard to measure from objective standards whether there is an absolute rule as to whether it makes sense to go to a Princeton over a Penn State or vice versa. The Honchos know graduates of both fine institutions who have gone on to do great things, as well as graduates of both who aren't doing such great things. Ultimately, the decision is a matter of individual choice.
1. Exclusivity
There is no doubt that Ivy League schools are some of the most selective universities in the world. The acceptance rate at Harvard is around 10%. Contrast that with Texas Tech University and its almost 70% acceptance rate. So, we know that it's hard to get your foot in the door at the Ivy League schools, but what does that mean? I think all we can conclude from the low acceptance rates is that lots of high school seniors apply to Ivy League school because Ivy League schools are desirable.
2. High Caliber Students
Students who are accepted for admittance to Ivy League schools tend to be high achievers, at least from traditional metrics such as grade point averages and SAT scores. In addition, there is ever increasing pressure to demonstrate superlatives above and beyond academics, whether in the field of athletics, volunteer work or something else. So, when you put all these super achievers together, you get a great synergy (or at least in theory). From an anecdotal standpoint, this argument seems to have a lot of traction among the Ivy Leaguers I know. Smart kids, particularly smart kids who are motivated and driven, will push other smart kids to perform their best, share ideas and produce innovation. However, a fair number of the Ivy Leaguers also point out that the undergraduate experience at an Ivy League school is not all about intense intellectual debate and curiosity, and you may be surprised by what goes on within the student body - everything from stereotypical StateU-type binge drinking and partying to rampant cheating and plagiarism to a more than uncommon intellectual non-curiosity. So, while certain synergies come from putting a bunch of smart people together, does a driven high achiever excel because of the environment or is that same person going to excel no matter where he or she goes to school?
3. Cost
One negative aspect to Ivy League schools certainly has to be the price tag. The tuition, room and board at Dartmouth, for example, is currently $43,341 per year. Contrasting with Texas Tech again, the tuition, room and board for Texas residents at Texas Tech is an estimated $17,554. Assuming that the respective tuition, room and board figures remain the same over four years (highly improbable given the tuition increases at both public and private universities), we're talking about a $100,000 difference over four years between Dartmouth and Texas Tech. If a Dartmouth student finances his/her education solely through student loans, that's over $170,000 in debt by graduation. Now, imagine that the Dartmouth grad goes to a private graduate school and finances that education through debt. The $170k from college is some serious money, but now we're talking about some serious serious money! Don't think it ever happens? Check out the plight of two young married doctors with over a HALF MILLION dollars in student debt.
4. Quality of Faculty
So, maybe the Ivy League advantage comes from the quality of the faculty and classes. After all, some of that genius must rub off on the students, right? Again, my anecdotal evidence indicates no clear conclusion. The vast majority of Ivy Leaguers that the Honchos have spoken to felt that quite a few of their professors were uninterested in the teaching aspect of their jobs. What, you say - teachers who don't want to teach? Similar to any other major research university, Ivy League schools are in competition for grants and funding, and that comes from research and publishing. As such, professors are rewarded for their research and publishing efforts and not so much for teaching. Sure, the Ivy Leaguers found some gems here and there, and in some cases, had inspirational relationships with professors who became their mentors, but as a whole, many professors seemed to be distant from teaching (and rationally so, considering the reward scheme). One Ivy League alum who took classes with two different Nobel prize winners found the genius of the laureautes less than inspiring. The first Nobel laureaute missed more than half his classes while traveling back and forth between Europe to build a villa and put a graduate student in charge of teaching the course. The other Nobel laureaute refused to engage any points of view that differed from his own.
5. Connections
So, that brings us to connections, and this is where I think the Ivy League / elite private college advantage comes in. For certain industries and professions, investment banking and management consulting come to mind, it certainly appears that having the Ivy League degree is advantageous for getting one's foot in the door. Certain traditionally clubby professions such as finance are disproportionately populated by Ivy League alums. When these companies look to recruit each year, Ivy League schools are their major sources for talent. Similarly, Ivy League undergrads tend to serve as feeders to Ivy League law schools and business schools, and many white-shoe companies tend to hire a disproportionate number of recruits from the Ivy League professional schools.
But, this advantage does not seem to cross all industries or professions, including medicine, sales, entertainment, engineering, computers, accounting, sciences, etc. After all, is organic chemistry really that different at Harvard versus UCLA? Are Harvard students learning about special atoms that their counterparts in Westwood aren't? I don't think so, but then again, I never took organic chemistry.
6. Conclusion
It's hard to measure from objective standards whether there is an absolute rule as to whether it makes sense to go to a Princeton over a Penn State or vice versa. The Honchos know graduates of both fine institutions who have gone on to do great things, as well as graduates of both who aren't doing such great things. Ultimately, the decision is a matter of individual choice.
posted by Mr. Honcho at
7:35 PM
|2 comments|
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2 Comments:
I am a Columbia grad, and I agree there are some disadvantages to going to an Ivy League school. First, if you look at high achievers in business, government, journalism, nonprofit work, or whatever interests you, the people at the top are usually not graduates of a top college. If they have an Ivy degree, more likely than not it's a graduate degree, and they got their undergrad paper somewhere more modest. That's not to say that going to a non-Ivy school causes success, but clearly there is far more to success than which campus you hung around at while winging classes.
I particularly agree about the connections; that was by far the most valuable thing for me. You can't beat being at a place where the average person is interesting and smart.
And finally, remember that as college has broadened to a standard part of most young Americans' education, it has encountered the same problems that have hobbled public high schools. Many if not most American colleges have a serious (and well-populated) remedial program, and I frequently hear professor friends express dismay at the basic knowledge incoming students lack.
There are good professors everywhere, and plenty of bad ones in the Ivy League. It's also possible to get a good education in most colleges, if you stick close to the good professors and work at your education beyond just getting good grades. But the question for most students is not what the upper limit of education potential is at a given school, but what kind of education they will get if they, like most students, take school seriously but not that seriously. What will they absorb by osmosis? This I think is different at Columbia than it is at NYU, and it's different at Rice than it is at Texas Tech. There's just more well-educated people around everywhere, and I think that makes a difference for average students.
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